Smart Business Growth with Nicky & Ness

Sales Strategies for the Modern Market: Tips from Darcy Smyth

• Nicky & Ness • Season 2 • Episode 32

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In this episode, Vanessa is joined by sales expert Darcy Smyth to explore the evolving sales landscape in a post-COVID world. They discuss overcoming sales challenges, the impact of economic changes, and effective strategies to thrive despite market fluctuations.

Episode Highlights:

  • Market Changes: Darcy explains how the sales environment has shifted over the past five years, highlighting the importance of persistence and understanding market dynamics.
  • The M.O.R.E. Model: Darcy introduces the M.O.R.E. model—Market, Offer, Return on Investment, and Executing with Decision Makers—as a framework for sales success.
  • Dealing with Rejection: Strategies for overcoming fear of rejection and using it as valuable feedback for improving sales approaches.
  • The Importance of Understanding Your Market: Specialising in either a niche market or product and tailoring your offer to meet market needs.

This episode is packed with actionable insights for anyone looking to boost their sales performance and navigate today’s challenging business environment.

Connect with Darcy:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/darcyjsmyth/
https://www.whybravo.com/

Learn more about Nicky and Ness https://businesstogether.com.au

Buy a copy of Healthy Hustle: The New Blueprint to Thrive in Business & Life www.healthyhustle.com.au

Follow us on socials
Instagram - @b2businesstogether
Facebook - @B2BusinessTogether

Connect on LinkedIn
Nicky LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/connectwithnicky/
Ness LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/vanessamedling/

Give us a call
Nicky Miklos-Woodley 0403 191 404
Vanessa (Ness) Medling 0400 226 875

Or send us an email hello@businesstogether.com.au

Music by Jules Miklos-Woodley

Ness:

Welcome to the Smart Business Growth Podcast with Nicky and Ness. We would like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of country, the Turrbal and Bunurong people of Brisbane and Melbourne respectively, where Nicky and I both work and live, both work and live. It makes me so happy to introduce our guest this week on the podcast, Darcy Smyth. Darcy's been obsessed with one thing more than any other since the age of 10, and that's the human mind. He's fascinated by why we do what we do and why we buy what we buy. He's been working in the sales training and mentoring field for 10 plus years, and this is where Nicky and I have both met him. Darcy's been my initial early days sales trainer, sales mentor coach extraordinaire, who really helped me shift my mindset away from, you know, not actually making any money in my business my first business for the first three months, lots of coffee opportunities though into really understanding the mentality behind sales and understanding why people buy and how to make a business successful. And then, of course, that's been built on since. Nicky and I have come together back in the day then as well, and I do just love how aligned Darcy's selling style and methodology is with ours. So he takes care of all new and existing teams on the Outband platform, which is through a business he runs with the fabulous Mr Steve Claydon and he is also the father of a nearly two-year-old daughter, and any spare time that he gets devoted entirely to the golf course, with very little improvement overall. I love hearing the golf stories, so you're in for a treat.

Ness:

Today, darcy steps us through a really clear model. It's called the Moore Magnet and that is anywhere you are in business to be able to stop and identify what the blocks or barriers are to you being able to make sales. And we also touched on through the conversation and then a little bit more in depth at the end, this whole rejection concept and how to overcome that. So if you've ever resonated with the challenge of being rejected when somebody says no to your offer, you definitely want to listen in to this one. For the reframe, let's get straight into it. Today is a little bit different in that you won't hear Nicky's voice or see her on video, so I'm running solo with the fabulous Darcy Smyth. Thank you so much for joining me today, darcy.

Darcy:

Thanks for having me. Vanessa, Appreciate it.

Ness:

So welcome and, as I said in the intro, like we've known each other for a very long time and you have probably taught me the basis of everything I know about sales.

Darcy:

I take that as a compliment. I hope it's set you up well. It is, I'm still in business.

Ness:

So here we are all these years later and we know that you know you are an incredible mentor in this space and have definitely for me and I can speak on my behalf because Nick is not here but it has definitely made a big impact on how I approach sales because I love. The one thing that you taught me in the early days was all about what problem are you solving?

Ness:

And it's a beautiful approach to how to help people and how to make sure that you are solving a problem for someone and they're paying you for that, so that's something that has always stuck with me, darcy.

Ness:

And then of course, there's, just like layers upon layers of other pieces of gold that I picked up along the way, but I thought that we could kick off perhaps with a question in relation to. You know, we are post-COVID, obviously, you know. As somebody was saying, though, in January or February it'll be like five years since it all started.

Darcy:

That is crazy.

Ness:

So but right, you know, in 2024, there's economic and market business impacts that are happening. I notice, in a lot of the groups that I'm in on social media, people jump in and talk about how hard business is, how hard it is to get sales. You know, depends on which perspective you're listening to, right, but I think there is momentum out there in the way that media talk to us about the issues in the world. So, from your perspective, in the world of sales, how has the landscape changed over the past? You know, four to five years, since all of this has happened?

Darcy:

Yeah, appreciate it and thanks for having me today. You're welcome. So yeah, we're in an interesting spot, sales-wise, economy-wise, you're right. It does depend on which industry you look into and who you're listening to as to whether things are super difficult or just a little bit difficult or just normal business difficult. But the main thing overall is that the deals are still there to make Sales, are still there to be closed. They do just tend to take that extra little bit of nurture, that extra little bit of follow-up I don't want to say little bit of follow-up that extra bulk of follow-up and a little bit more patience for the deals to come over the line.

Darcy:

When they do so, money never really evaporates. When people say that money's tight, that doesn't mean anything. All that ever means is that money is just being held by a particular part of the market or by a particular set of people and they're not really spending it all that much. But sooner or later it actually becomes detrimental for those people to hold onto that money because a lot of the time that money is made by investing in things. So the longer they're holding onto it, the less investments they're making and therefore the money is actually starting to cost them by not investing it. Does that make sense? Yeah, totally so. It's not long before that dam bursts through and those people holding onto the money go. Okay, let's actually put this back out into the market again and away we go. That's a very simplistic way of looking at it, but it's a pretty true context to see through all of this.

Darcy:

Right Now, when that's the case, you've got a couple of options so you can basically continue to be in a market that sells something that is nice to have. And if you're selling something that's nice to have when there's not so much money floating about, then all you can really do is nurture, add a ton of value, be there, be present, be seen, be visible, so that when the money does turn back on again in quotation marks, then you'll be the first person they think of when they're thinking oh wow, I need a gold bumper bar for my car or I need you know, I need, whatever it may be crystal laced shoelaces. You know like I'll buy it and that's the case, right? But the other way that I believe is valuable, particularly in a market like this, is you really?

Darcy:

It gives you the chance to really assess how much of your business is a need to have business, because if you're a need to have business, then you'll flourish when times are tough and you'll actually flourish when times are good. You'll flourish all the time. The ideal business that you should have is one that is always a need to have product. If business that you should have is one that is always a need to have product, if you don't believe that you're a need to have product, the way you can look at that is that you simply don't understand the deep problems that you're solving for a market on both an individual level so for them, the individual but also from an ROI perspective, literally a logical and financial level. If you don't know the problems that you're solving and that you can't add that up for people, you'll always be seen as a nice to have and not a need to have. Please let me know if I'm going on a rant here.

Darcy:

No, Making sense Right, the model that we teach. For this is what I sort of came up with this around about sort of 60 days ago. I was putting these thoughts together around. Particularly in a tougher market, the thing that people experience a lot more is rejection, right? And I thought, well, what are the keys to be in place that if these were in place, then rejection wouldn't be experienced? What would be the ultimate business to create? Right? And when you think about that, if you knew you weren't going to get rejected? So if I ask you this, ness, if you knew that the first person you were going to call up today was going to say yes to whatever you offered whether that's a meeting or a product or a sale or whatever is they're going to say yes, how quickly would you get on the phone?

Darcy:

Really quick, really quick. If you knew that you were going to do that for tomorrow, the next week, the next month, the next six months and 12 months. After that, all you were going to hear was yeses, what do you think we need? Probably need to stick a bit of dynamite in between your left ear and the phone and blow it off, and blow your head off in the process. Right, a good salesperson would be like. Just sign me up for that.

Ness:

Okay.

Darcy:

So the problem isn't that we are afraid of going outbound or that we're afraid of, you know, putting our products out there, or that we're afraid of having sales conversations. That's not the problem. The problem is we're afraid of rejection. That's why people aren't taking action. That's why people are afraid of jumping on the phones. That's why it feels harder in a tougher market. What you're saying when you're saying this feels harder is I feel like I'm going to experience more rejection. That's really what it boils down to. So the four things that you need to understand in order to not have any sense of rejection or not fear that rejection four things. We refer to it as what's called the more magnet M-O-R-E. More magnet Meaning. If you have these four things in place, m-o-r-e, then you'll have clients that have magnetized towards you and you won't need to feel like you're the squeamish, awkward sales convincer anymore, which is a good one. So the first thing that you need to have in place is you need to understand your market, and when we talk about understanding your market, we refer to a couple of things here the your market. We refer to a couple of things here. The first thing is that you understand the specialization that you're in. So you can specialize in two different ways. You can specialize by focusing on a particular part of the market.

Darcy:

In a lot of work that we do myself and my business partner, steve Clayton in the work that we do, we have a specialized niche of 10 to 50 million dollar construction and manufacturing companies, project-centric companies using HubSpot as their CRM Completely blue ocean for us. No one else exists there. We dominate that space. We're the go-to for all of those businesses and they come to us. They're magnetized to us because of that. Okay, if you're not going to specialize in a particular part of the market, the only other thing you can do is specialize in your product. And if you're going specialise in the product, you need to be what we refer to as what's called the lamb man. The lamb man comes from this. Every Saturday morning, myself and my partner Ash, we go down to the Kiwana markets, like sunny coast markets. Here we get our fresh veg and our fresh meat and all this sort of stuff. You know very sunshine coast thing to do. You know everything's organic and spray free and whatnot right, all the very little.

Ness:

It's special and precious, isn't it Vanessa? Anyway, just eat a white bread sandwich, exactly From.

Darcy:

Bunnings? Yeah, exactly. So there's a guy there Kerry is his name, and he's the man we buy our lamb from every week, and this man is obsessed with lamb. All the signs out the front say Queensland's best lamb. Australia's best lamb, australia's best Dorper lamb you'll never find anywhere, whatever you shake his hand, and to him lamb is the world Like. He even looks a little bit like a little lamb, like he is, just he's obsessed with lamb right Now. He doesn't rock up to those markets and go.

Darcy:

My ideal customer is a Sunshine Coast based 40 year oldyear-old male that has a dog and whatever he's like. I'm just obsessed with lamb. I just love my product. So if you're going to not specialize in a particular part of the market, you need to specialize in your product and you need to think that your product is the greatest thing since sliced bread, and you need to sing that from the rooftops and back that hill five times more than you even think you are right now. Yeah, like it needs to become. You need to become a walking talking lamb man as far as your product is concerned. Yeah, that's the only way you overcome the fact that you haven't specialised into a particular market segment just yet. Right.

Darcy:

So that's the first part about M. You need to understand your specialisation. Who do you specialise in serving? The next thing you want to understand about your market is the problems that are experienced by that market, and we refer to this as what's called the three-headed monster. So the three-headed monster is the three problems that your buyer always has at least one of. I'll say that again your three problems that your buyer always has at least one of.

Darcy:

So if I was an accountant, I might say to you, vanessa, people come to us at our accounting firm because they're experiencing one, two or even all three of these problems. First problem they only ever hear from their accountant when there's a bill to pay or bad news to be delivered. Second problem you don't have any understanding around how you can actually use the money in your business account to make strategic investments into other businesses and other futures. A lot of accounts just count the money. They don't actually strategically advise you. And then the third is that you don't have any access to government grants available and free money for your industry. The accountant doesn't actually think that's his or her priority to actually teach you. They think you should go and do that yourself. Curious, vanessa, any of that going on for you. You'd hear that and go yeah, a bit of all three going on there with my account and I think what have you got to offer, Right?

Darcy:

So that's the M, the more magnet of the more magnet, which is knowing your market. What's the specialization and what three main problems does that market run into? That if you spoke to them on any given day, you can be guaranteed that they're going to have at least one of those. That's really key With me so far, or am I?

Ness:

Absolutely Loving it. Excellent, I'm loving it. I'm making notes oh that's awesome, notes. How can we apply this in our own business?

Darcy:

There you go, love it. It's the best part about running podcasts, isn't it? You get to just learn as you go.

Ness:

Absolutely. Have you heard? Our book Healthy Hustle, the new blueprint to thrive in business and life, is available right now to purchase. In Healthy Hustle, we take you through real-world, practical and achievable steps to move you away from unhealthy hustle to a place of happiness and living, whilst continuing to achieve incredible business results. Order your copy now at healthyhustlecomau.

Darcy:

So O is all about your offer. So once you know your market really well and you know the problems that they have, ideally you should be able to create an offer that fits like a hand in a glove to their problems. And the key with your offer is that it ideally needs to be better or different from the rest of your competition. If it's the same as your competition offered it pretty much the same way in pretty much the same price, then ultimately what you're looking at is you better get your running boots on because you're headed for a race to the bottom on price. That's the only way that can ever end up. If there's no differentiating fact, your buyer knows they can come to you and go compare apples for apples and go pretty much the same, just going to take the cheapest one, because why wouldn't they right? So once you've got your M, your market problem, your O is your offer which matches those problems perfectly and you're different or better from the rest. Imagine, vanessa, I said to you then hey, go out there and make some cold calls, go approach the market, here's all their problems in a specialization and here's the perfect solution to match it. You're starting to think, okay, I could probably get on this. You're still not the stick of dynamite to blow it off, but I'm pretty keen to get on the phone here, okay, cool.

Darcy:

The third thing you want to understand is R, which stands for return on investment, roi Meaning.

Darcy:

Do you clearly know, and how much do you genuinely believe, that if your buyers buy this thing to solve that problem, that they're going to be getting a good return on investment on the money they spent?

Darcy:

What you want to know and believe if you do the napkin maths around it, somehow, in some way, whatever there's different ways we go about this, probably for a different webinar but what you want to understand is that there's at least a five to one ratio return on investment to what they spent in terms of when they make that buying decision.

Darcy:

So if you look at it and go, I reckon if you give me $1, I could easily make you $5 back. Or if you're going to spend $10,000 with us, but you're definitely going to make at least $50 back, you're going to spend $100,000 with us over the next 12 months. You guarantee we're going to get you $500,000 back. Just based on the data that we've run, then you know Ideally what do you want to get to to make it an absolute no-brainer is 10 to 1. So somewhere between 5 and 10 to 1 is a really good spot to sit for your ROI and you need to know and believe that's the case when people work with you or buy your product or buy your service. Anything more than that and it actually starts to become a little bit unbelievable.

Ness:

Yeah.

Darcy:

And the market actually tends to notice that and go eh.

Ness:

Yeah, we see that Like make a million dollars in three months.

Darcy:

Exactly? Yeah, not true, right? As opposed to multiply your income by 1.4, add 40% to what you're already earning, people go. It's within range. Yeah, I don't mind that, right? Okay, cool. So we have our market and we understand their problems and they're in a specialization. We have an offer to match that market. We know there's a clear ROI on what we're going to sell that market and what we're going to offer them.

Darcy:

The fourth part is that you want to make sure that you're talking to people who can E execute on the decision makers and decision makers. We include this part in the more magnet because we know for sure, vanessa, so many people you and I included have had awesome sales conversations with people in the past. It's an absolute smack out of the park. Everyone's happy and then it turns out after four and a half months of deliberation, you weren't even talking to the decision maker yet, and so that can really stick a fork in things. But here's the thing, if I said to you, vanessa, we know the market, we're in a specialization, we understand their problems, we've got an offer that fits like a hand in a glove and it's better or different from anything else out there. We've clearly calculated the ROI and we know how to explain that to our buyers. Oh and, by the way, every single person you're going to be talking to is a decision maker. How quickly would you want to get on the phone?

Ness:

Absolutely, I always remember.

Ness:

I remember the thinking early in my business because I had this really big challenge of stepping out of this corporate kind of mindset of I've never sold anything. Hello, selling things every day, concepts, ideas, getting people across the line as a leader. But in my head, apart from my Mary Kay days when I sold one lipstick at a party, I made $10. I had this belief that I don't know sales, blah, blah. But one of the key things I think that I really got to early on in the business was knowing that what I had to offer was going to make a difference for the person that I was got to early on in the business was knowing that what I had to offer was going to make a difference for the person that I was talking to and that thought process around.

Ness:

You know it is selfish of me to not do everything I can to help them make a buying decision, because I know the world of pain they're in will continue if they don't have what I have to top them. You know this product that I can give them that is going to help them shift from pain to where they want to be in their business. So it's that whole flipping it across to and I think back when that's been on point with clients over the course of my previous business and our current business. It really is. It's just a no-brainer. The conversation flows, people say you know, it just becomes I can't. I can't not sell to you because I know this is going to be the thing that you absolutely need and it's going to get you where you need to go.

Darcy:

Yep, I can't not sell to you. And then they're sitting there thinking, well, I can't not buy, so where do we sign?

Ness:

Exactly.

Ness:

So I love that perspective, darcy, because one of the things we talk to our clients about all the time is looking through the lens of a model helps you step out of the emotion of it and really kind of step above what's going on. Because I think that when we're in the thick of it, we're in the mud when we're living. So you know the people who say it's so hard out there at the moment. They're in the weeds and this kind of thing allows you, I believe, to step back and look at it and go okay, if I were to do a little bit of a process here where I jotted down what is it, you know, do we understand the specialisation? Could we articulate that really quickly and easily to anyone else? You know what is our offer, how does it? And then the ROI and you know each of those to really do that. It's like that you know health check around. Where are we at through this process there?

Darcy:

you go.

Ness:

It means that we can actually be a little bit more objective in the way that we look at our business, and what I love about that is that stops us from being caught into the belief system of other people who say danger, it's awful People going at us and nobody's got any money. And exactly what you said at the beginning. I remember hearing about that in one of the money courses that I did. It's like it's not like all this money's just left the world, it's just the people who have it. Like it's still there. Yes, the money still exists.

Darcy:

In fact, they're printing more of it.

Ness:

Exactly yes. The money?

Darcy:

still exists. In fact, they're printing more of it.

Ness:

Exactly yes, so the money will always be there. It's about how do you access what's out there, and I think what you've stepped us through in this model the more model, with the lovely story of the lamb man- yes, do you ever forget that yes business owners and salespeople the opportunity to think about it through a different perspective that steps out of buying into the agenda of COVID.

Ness:

like everything I started with COVID, market economy Over time things will shift. It just does. You only have to look at the share market over the last you know how many hundreds of years and it will always bounce back. Business will always bounce back. Something will always come.

Ness:

But I think the difference between those who are still in business and able to create an opportunity is to be able to be objective about what's going on and create change based on what they observe. Well said yeah. So I'd love to. Just before we wrap up, I just want to come back to this rejection concept, and I know that for me early in business, that was a big thing. It was like oh, I'm really being annoying and people don't want to talk to me. What happens if they don't like me, all that kind of stuff. So what's your best piece of advice other than this model around this concept about rejection in sales? Because I would have to say that, from all the people that I've spoken to at a peer level who have struggled with sales, the rejection thing, whether we say it out loud or not is actually one of the, because it's a core human need. Isn't it to be accepted and to be?

Darcy:

liked.

Ness:

And so how do you get out of your own way when you're fearful of rejection, other than doing a process like this? So, because I know you know the psychology, the human behavioural, and that's your specialty as well, what do you think that would be?

Darcy:

Give me an example of an answer that you're looking for here, because there's multiple different ways I can take this.

Ness:

I guess that whole thing when I think back to early days in my business, some of the gaming gamification of things is to actually have a fail strategy. Just go out and seek some no's. Get over that fear that people are going to say no to you. Another thing I learned off you and Steve put the 50 cent piece 31 times and it will never come up with heads 31 times, tails 31 times. It constantly changes and so that was a huge thing for me around sales, because you can go no, no, and then there'll be a yes.

Ness:

You go yes and then you can guarantee you're going to get a no. And I think the day we did that in a training room together it came out, someone recorded how many times it went heads and someone recorded how many tails and it was about, you know, around 15, 16.

Darcy:

Yeah, yeah.

Ness:

So what's the little mental tricks that help us to just put it into perspective and go it's okay. It's okay Not, the world isn't rejecting us because of this.

Darcy:

Yeah, I think the key is understanding that rejection is information, is understanding that rejection is information. So, if you have a product that you're selling and you're getting rejected on it often, to bring it back to the more magnet although that was my intention here, but to bring it back to that then it helps you realize there's one of these four that we're clearly missing. Yeah, yeah, and that aside, now you could use any model that you're using to experience rejection, or experience the putting the product out there and seeing how it goes, throwing it out to the market and letting the wolves have at it, so to speak, when people get annoyed at you or they say no or whatever it may be. If you can understand why they're annoyed or why they said no, then all it does is give you information to leverage into the next call that's going to make you better, or leverage into the product to make it even better, or leverage into the way that you're marketing the product to make it even better. So you can never lose on making a sales call. You can't. There's no way you can lose. You either win a deal or you learn why someone didn't buy it, and then you adapt accordingly. How good is that.

Darcy:

The tough thing, though I do understand the tough thing is realizing you're the human being at the center of it all, having to make these calls and if you're taking that rejection personally, all it says is that you're holding yourself worth around. What you have Meaning. If they rejected the product that you have, they're rejecting you. That's not the case at all. It's just not. People are rejecting the product that you have. They're rejecting you. Yeah, and that's not the case at all. Yeah, it's just not. People are rejecting the product.

Ness:

They'll forget about you 10 seconds later, but you tend to remember them for the next 10 years if they have a crack at you.

Darcy:

That's right, right, but all they're doing is rejecting the product. And here's the thing they may be even rejecting your pitch, yeah yeah, but you, that's still not you. You're you are not your pitch. You're you that you're the person who made the pitch, but you're not the pitch, if that makes sense. So I don't think anyone can ever have any hope of ever touching the real you when it comes to rejecting you on a sales call. Just can't be touched. They can only reject your offer, your pitch, your product, whatever it may be, but they'll never reject you. They can't. The same way, you can't ever reject them. It's not possible.

Ness:

It's funny, actually, as you're saying that, what jumps into my mind is when you go, not that I go to McDonald's, but that whole do you want fries with that kind of concept?

Darcy:

Yeah.

Ness:

Like the pimply 16-year-old who could have been one of my kids at any stage in life.

Darcy:

Yes.

Ness:

He says, do you want fries with that? And I go, no thanks he's, I know nothing about them. I'm not rejecting them.

Darcy:

Exactly You're just rejecting the prize.

Ness:

Imagine if you're on the counter at Macca's and everyone who said no to you won't prize you that You're like, went home and went. Nobody likes me.

Darcy:

Yeah, exactly.

Ness:

You know, I think sometimes when you put it into the, you know what's the crazy side of the way that we hold ourselves and our ego so tightly. Hold on to that right. So it tightly hold on to that right. So it's a bit of lightness required in that like how. And that's what I love about you know the what I've had to do with you and steve over the years around the gamification, around sales and having fun with it and the sales game when we're in the room together, you know, with like chips and trying to like.

Ness:

It was fun and yeah I think that during times like the challenging times and I'm not undermining that there aren't challenging times, because you know it is you talk to people. There are people struggling out there, more so than what they have been in the past, but take ourselves lightly.

Darcy:

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. If you take yourself too seriously in this game, you're stuffed.

Ness:

I know yeah. And I think about, you know, watching my son and I used to watch that show around the property, the Australian one, I can't remember what it's called, but it had the just the confidence of those people who were getting out there selling these multi-million dollar Sydney properties. It's just like they're Teflon. Yes, you know, there is nothing in them that walks away going. Oh, maybe they don't like me.

Darcy:

Yes.

Ness:

It's just fascinating to see the human behaviour behind it. But that is a whole other podcast episode for sure yeah. I love this more model and I really appreciate you sharing that with us and I wonder, like I feel like for me, if Nicky

Ness:

and I were to sit down and work our way through that, like that might be something that we schedule a bit of a block of time in our calendar for.

Ness:

But, if somebody's listening to what we're talking about today, you know have gone on a couple of different angles. What would be a great starting point for them if they are experiencing tough environment out there, what's the one thing that you would suggest they do in the next 24 hours that's actionable, that could start them on the journey.

Darcy:

Love it. Call the last 10 people that you sold to and ask them what were the challenges and frustrations and pain points you were experiencing before we actually met.

Ness:

Okay.

Darcy:

And get the clear understanding direct from your market in terms of the language they use to describe the challenges and frustrations that led them to actually reach out and buy something. Because that's the gold. Like if you can uncover those exact words that people are typically using. That's your sales pitch. You just go straight to everyone, like them, use similar language and go hey, a lot of people, a lot of your peers, are experiencing A, B and C, Curious to know if you've got a bit of the same going on. And they go yeah, and you go great. Well, those people bought this, solved it. Would you like to have a look? Makes it a whole lot easier.

Darcy:

The only other option that you have is guesswork and your opinion and your assumption about what the market may or may not be saying and what you think their problems are. But if you do that, actually what you often end up with is just the problems you might've had at some stage. In fact, there's almost nothing else you could possibly end up with other than that, if you're assuming. So I'd rather actually get the data. Let the data speak, let the opinions of your buyers speak so much more than just what your opinion is and what you think should be the problems that they're experiencing.

Ness:

I love that.

Darcy:

Give them a call. Make 10 phone calls.

Ness:

Yep, okay, then take you up on that challenge.

Darcy:

Okay, I'm going to take you up on that challenge. Yeah, done Good work.

Ness:

Amazing. Thank you so much for your time today, darcy. So much gold in our conversation and I always love our conversations, so really appreciate you coming on to this solo episode without Nicky, but I know she'll be listening back and getting so much value from this as well. So thanks, darcy, it's awesome.

Darcy:

Thanks for having me.

Ness:

Okay, see you Bye. Thanks for listening to today's ep. If you loved what you heard, connect with us over on LinkedIn and let's continue the conversation over there. Did you hear you can now buy our book Healthy Hustle the new blueprint to thrive in business and life, at healthyhustlecomau. Want us to speak to your team or run a workshop on healthy hustle in your workplace? Send us an email, or go old school and give us a call to discuss. Until next time, happy listening and here's to thriving in business and life.