Smart Business Growth with Nicky & Ness

The Myth of the 24/7 Entrepreneur: Why Working Harder Isn't Always the Answer

• Nicky & Ness • Season 2 • Episode 28

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In this episode of the Smart Business Growth Podcast, hosts Nicky and Ness dive into critical aspects of workplace stress, burnout, and sustainable growth. They uncover the hidden costs of aggressive hustling, share startling statistics on stress-related illnesses, and review the right-to-disconnect laws in Australia. The hosts explore the primary motivators for change—pleasure and pain—and provide strategies for overcoming negative habits through supportive environments and habit stacking. Emphasis is placed on the power of a supportive network, and listeners are introduced to their book 'Healthy Hustles: The New Blueprint to Thrive in Business and Life.' This episode offers actionable tips, real-world examples, and emphasises the importance of balanced work practices for long-term success.


Learn more about Nicky and Ness https://businesstogether.com.au

Buy a copy of Healthy Hustle: The New Blueprint to Thrive in Business & Life www.healthyhustle.com.au

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Nicky LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/connectwithnicky/
Ness LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/vanessamedling/

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Nicky Miklos-Woodley 0403 191 404
Vanessa (Ness) Medling 0400 226 875

Or send us an email hello@businesstogether.com.au

Music by Jules Miklos-Woodley

Nicky:

Welcome to the Smart Business Growth Podcast with Nicky and. Ness.

Ness:

We would like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of country, the Turrbal and Bunurong people of Brisbane and Melbourne respectively, where Nicky and I both work and live both work and live Nicky. One of the key concepts we have in the book that really stuck out to me is this whole hustling harder is actually costing lives, and that's a really big statement and I think about. Are we dramatizing that in any way or shape or form? And then I remember back to the stats that we researched for the book and the ones that blew my mind around when it comes to stress and burnout and all of those kinds of things. So I just want to recap some of the major stats that really make a big impact on this.

Ness:

94% or more sorry, 94, or more than 9 to 10 in 10 workers have chronic stress at work. 75 to 90% of all doctor office visits are for stress-related ailments and complaints. Those figures blow my mind because I think about this is a it's not just the one-off situation, right, this is something where if business owners are hustling, if there's on their way to burnout and they're creating an environment around them that also fulfills that prophecy around, you've got to work really, really hard if you want to earn more money, if you want to hit your targets, if you want to just make a difference and be successful and I think about that there's a cost to business for that belief. The financial impact of people leaving a business due to burnout can cost between 30 to 50% of the wage of that employee. Now, when we did our little fact-checking, what we saw was, according to the Australian Bureau of Statistics, this year, the average Australian wage is $100,000. So any business that is not putting consideration into creating a healthy way of hustling is actually losing, you know, 30 to 50 grand for every employee that gets up and leaves.

Ness:

And then all of the other flow on impacts and costs, and I just think that that is really like it's a wake up call. It's a wake up call for anyone who is still doing the hustle and grind, who is still working on weekends and not placing boundaries around their business and what they want to. You know what they need to do in order to fill their cup. And I go why? Why is this still a problem for people? Because you can know all this and you can learn everything you need to know and you could be wanting to change. But I know that there are people out there that, just because they know it's not healthy for them to be working long hours, for example, they still do it. They think they've done something to fix it, but it still comes back. And I'd really love us to focus on what are these barriers, what are the key barriers to stopping us from taking action when we know that's the action we need to and must take?

Nicky:

Yeah, the interesting thing about what you say there as well and as I'm hearing you say that, obviously I'm across these stats. They're in our book. What I find interesting about this conversation is that we're talking about the cost the revenue cost of business, because the fact that it's affecting people's mental health, physical health, is actually not enough to create change. And isn't that kind of sad that we're having this conversation and we need to? And even as business owners and leaders, that's a fact that we need to be aware of and sometimes the feel good. I want my people or myself to be healthy and optimal, because sometimes a lot of the leaders that are listening and watching this, you want to do right by your team, but what about doing right by you as well, and it's kind of sad that sometimes, when it comes down to revenue risk, that's the thing that can create the change but, also it's the reality and I do think that there is a yearning.

Nicky:

We know that there's a yearning for a different way. Think about the right to disconnect laws that have just come out in Australia. You know there's laws that are coming out to say, hey, you can't if you haven't heard of this, to say that employers can't contact their employees outside of agreed upon working hours. So you know there's an attempt. It's clear that we're trying to find a better way to thrive, a better way to hustle healthily, and it's such a fair point that you make around. We all know there's the logical, the theoretical side of it. What actually stops us, what does stop us from taking action? Because also the other pattern that we see is that we can be really good at it for a little while and then we fall back into the old way of working.

Ness:

Yeah, absolutely.

Ness:

Look, we've been able to identify because we're having a conversation about this One of our clients had raised it as a question in relation to what is it that stops people when they know that they need to do that?

Ness:

And I think there are some five key areas that we want to cover here and what I would say as you're listening or watching this, if any of these stand out and resonate with you, pay attention, because the one thing that I'll preface all of these barriers with is change will not happen overnight, and this sort of fast-paced environment where we expect things immediately like I dieted for a day and I went to the gym and I lifted weights where is my body, my goodness?

Ness:

If only so logically, we know that doesn't happen for a longer period of time. So the first thing I would say to any of what we're going to cover off on here is is we have to remember it's the repeated actions and behaviors and it's the undoing of what we have been if you're resonating with this of what you have been doing, potentially for years or decades, so we cannot expect immediate change. This is something that we need to work towards, that we need to work with over time. I remember we recently interviewed James Bartrock and he talked about working over five years to get his belief system shifted and the actual change in behavior. So that's what I would preface this conversation with, but, as we said, we're going to go through five.

Nicky:

I'll also say to that I don't want. It can feel like a lot. So, yes, it's not overnight work. It can feel like a lot. So, yes, it's not overnight work, absolutely. And if you get started today, then you're going to get the results quicker, because if you just go, oh my gosh, it's too big, there's too much, well, yeah, then it's forever.

Ness:

You're not going to get there, but anyway so don't be turned off by that.

Nicky:

That's just a reality check, people. But there are things you can do to start All right.

Ness:

So do you want to hit us up with the very first barrier that we've identified to making change?

Nicky:

Absolutely so. I think one of the first key considerations or things that we have to be aware about is actually our environment. So do we have a supportive environment around us? I think let's share the barrier and a quick tip solution as well for each nest. So you know, if you're you know we were talking about Kit Kats before we clicked record. You know we like talking about food, of course, and it's sort of you know that habit of 3pm Arvo munchies have some chocolate. If you've constantly got someone that's always there going, yeah, here's some Kit Kats, let's get pizza, let's get some chips. Sometimes that's fun and exciting. But do you have people around you that are supporting you to create this change? You know they're there with an apple instead of a Kit Kat. I don't know, because we're going to talk a little bit more about motivation and willpower, but reality is we've got to set ourselves up for success. So do the people around you support you? That's what we're talking about with supportive environment. Does the physical environment support you as well? For example, you mentioned working on the weekend.

Nicky:

Ness, we've got a lot of work from home situations happening still. How are you separating yourself from your workplace at home, or even working longer hours. So we're talking about the people around you from a supportive environment component as well as your physical environment. Like, really look around you, literally and figuratively, to say is am I being set up for success? And with the people, maybe share with them what your goals are. Ness, you and I are really great at doing this for each other. You know around work hours or taking holidays or whatever that might be. So share what your goals, what change you want to make, with people around you so they also know how they can support you, set them up for success, to support you. You know, get the metaphorical Kit Kats out of the room so you're not tempted. So supportive environment is really important to be able to create this change.

Ness:

So supportive environment is really important to be able to create this change Fabulous, and I think that what flows on well with that we're going to keep the theme of Kit Kats going, I think throughout this whole podcast Are we going to have to go get some? Kit Kats. After this I might have to text my daughter and say I'm on the way home.

Ness:

Look. The next one I want to talk about is having. There's two different things that we as humans do when it comes to creating change. One is we move away from pain. So think burnout, like you've experienced this right, I never want to have that feeling again. So now I absolutely must take action. The other way that we can look at creating change is moving towards pleasure. So it's that whole thing around. Change is moving towards pleasure, so it's that whole thing around.

Ness:

I'm not motivated by anything that's sort of blocking me as a big, major pain, but I'd really love to lose weight or have a different body, or you know that summertime bikini, whatever it is. So I think that what we have to look at here is are we motivated by moving away from pain? And if so, we need to work out, you know, like stack that pain, really get deeply involved in. What does it mean? If I continue to do this? What does the future version of my life look like? Does it the people might say as an example, you know, think about Simon from the book. His pain was my family could actually get up and move away if I don't. They could leave me if I continue to work these ridiculously long hours. So there's that sort of stacking, or you could be motivated by the fact that I'd really love to have something to work towards, but I'm going to guess that if you are stuck in this pattern, we're going to be looking at the pain and the only way that you really can, I think, see that face on is to understand that there is a secondary gain for you to continue to do that behavior.

Ness:

And it may seem absolutely crazy in the moment when someone goes. You know what have you got to gain from this? And you go absolutely nothing. It's poor on my health, it's poor on my relationships. I'm not productive, I'm not performing at my best. There is not one thing in here at all that I'm thinking back to past coaching conversations that I have to gain from this, and yet there always is.

Ness:

There's something underlying that, and what it could be is perhaps, if you don't have the support of the people around you, maybe you're avoiding spending time with them because they're not aligned with the vision and goals. Maybe you are in a comfort zone. Maybe you have a fear that if I don't keep working like this, I'm not going to have money in the bank and success because your belief system is linked to that. So really got to unpick what that gain is in order to really understand the behavior. And then, once we understand the behavior and we kind of just keep stacking the pain around that, but not to a point where you're burning out but to realize what would my life look like and I know I've spoken with clients about this in coaching sessions what will it look like if you're burnt out and have months off work?

Ness:

Well, all of a sudden, the reason that I'm there to support my team or to bring money home for my family, that all of a sudden is taken away. So that's a really important block where I think that, or the barrier, is that we don't actually understand that we've got to gain from staying in that behavior. Does that make sense?

Nicky:

Another example of that that comes to mind is sometimes it's adrenaline. So the adrenaline and excitement we get from things like working on weekends, pushing out deadlines, taking on too much Ness just for our audience. Can you get a little bit clearer on what you mean by stacking the pain?

Ness:

Yes. Well, I think that it's a matter of realizing what it's, looking at all the different scenarios, right? So it's sort of like if I continue to do this behavior, what is going to be the consequence for me in the short term, in the medium term and in the long term? Who is it going to impact? Who else is it going to impact? The ones that I love? What other consequences will there be? Like the whole idea of I could burn out. So it's really looking at all the different scenarios and being honest with yourself around this behavior that you're doing and how that is impacting. So when you stack it to a point where it feels like, well, it is ridiculous for me to continue working like this, because the reality is I could be in hospital, sitting in a doctor's office with the other 75% to 90% of people with chronic stress. I may have to close my business down, I may not have my family around me anymore. That's what I mean by stacking the pain. Is that clear?

Nicky:

Yeah, yeah, definitely, because that can be quite coaching languages as well sometimes. So it's this leaning into what is the worst case scenario, actually like what else could be, and I think the challenge around this sometimes is because it's theory, you know, is how many people who do get to burnout are like, oh, that's what, that's the leverage that creates change. And we've got to try and find a way to lean into the pain before it actually becomes reality, and that can be challenging because it's not yet reality and there can be this mentality of oh, that's other people, that's not me.

Ness:

Yeah, actually, to be honest, I think you need to work with somebody who's going to help you with that. In fact, all of these you really need, perhaps a support person, a coach, a mentor, a psychiatrist, a psychologist, somebody in your team that's just there for you, who can challenge you on any of the BS that comes out your mouth.

Nicky:

Totally, totally agree with that.

Nicky:

And also there probably are pain points that people can reflect on already. For example, james shared last week because it's because it's common, right, like james shared last week, his kids, dad, can you not make take a phone call when you pick us up from work? That was years ago. We actually do have probably have these examples and scenarios already in our lives, but it's really easy sometimes to just go into avoidance very headed the sand and push it to the side. So I guess the other thing is stack the pain theoretically of future worst case and also reflect on what is the impact of this on my people around me right now. Yeah, absolutely.

Ness:

Have you heard? Our book Healthy Hustle the New Blueprint to Thriving Business and Life, is available right now to purchase. In Healthy Hustle we take you through real-world, practical and achievable steps to move you away from unhealthy hustle to a place of happiness and living, whilst continuing to achieve incredible business results. Order your copy now at healthyhustlecomau. Third one Nick, all right.

Nicky:

Okay. So here's the thing when we want to change a pattern, a behavior, even a belief, we have to replace it with something else. We have to replace it with something else first, because otherwise we'll just keep doing that same old pattern. So think about it like we've got neural pathways in our brain. I think about it like a highway.

Nicky:

So it's not just that first drive of a car over a field and there's a light dent of grass. These neural pathways have been driven over and over and over. They're highways. They're now deeply rooted roads, so we can't just go. I've been working on the weekend for the last five years.

Nicky:

I think I'll just stop because that is actually a habit now that is ingrained in us. So if that's an example of something we want to change, we need to look at what am I going to replace it with until it's the new habit has taken over. It's the same with beliefs. I've got a belief around, whatever it might be, we have to replace that belief with something else. Otherwise's the same with beliefs. I've got a belief around, whatever it might be, we have to replace that belief with something else. Otherwise the old belief is always going to keep popping up. So I think that's a really important aspect to look at what is the behavior that you want to change that you realize is a hustle, hard, negative behavior, and then look at how can I replace that behavior with something else? Because then you've got something new to focus on and you know then that's going to help you create that change. The problem is that we rely a lot on motivation, and I don't know about you, ness, but I'm definitely not motivated every single moment of every single day.

Ness:

It's crazy, right.

Nicky:

And I don't think anybody out there is, and if you are, I want to hear from you because I'm going to have a conversation and challenge that we're not. We're not motivated. Motivation is fickle and we rely too much on motivation. So we need to make sure that we are replacing the unresourceful behavior or pattern or belief with something else, so that we're not relying on motivation, but rather we're being more strategic about how we're changing it. And I'm going to lead into the fourth one, which is the barrier is often that things feel too big and too hard, and I mentioned this at the beginning of the conversation. It's not overnight. It's going to take too long. I'll get to it.

Nicky:

No, you can start with the 1%. Ask anybody that has achieved anything. Think about your own successes. As Ness said at the beginning, it's not an overnight success. It is tiny, little, small, consistent steps that get you there. Don't ever underestimate the power of the 1%. What's that? One little thing that you can start doing, because eventually that's going to end up becoming 2%. So that's also really important. Focus on the 1%, one small action that you can take Now. So what's the fifth one?

Ness:

Well, the fifth one ties in with planning. They all link right. So you talk about having to have something in its place. So when we're really clear on what our boundaries will be so we don't want to work on weekends, let's use that. So you've got a belief that I have to work hard for my money. The consequence of that is you work on a weekend, so one you've got to work on that belief, that mindset. The 1% changes. But here's where we can get really really. I get some momentum going. It's around looking at well, if this is my plan, how am I going to make sure that I succeeded it?

Ness:

And this is where the James Clear Atomic Habits one of the best books I've ever read comes into play. And he talks about things like don't rely on motivation, but rely on a logical way of you being able to achieve a change in a habit. So one of the things he talks about there's so many different things he talks about but one of them that seems to really resonate a lot with people that I share this information with is this habit stacking. So it's the idea that if you're doing something already and you always do that then you add the other thing that you want to start to do next to it. So a good example of this is if you want to journal every day and you have a coffee every morning and you love your coffee, is to journal while you have your coffee. So, thinking about this, I've got to work hard, or I've got to work on weekends. What is it that you can actually put in the place? Something that you do already, that you can stack it on? So it could be that you do, I don't know, housework in the morning or something, and you shut the door to your office and you just don't go in, or you put a sign up, just something along the lines that you've got to create a new habit, because the neural pathways are ingrained and it's going to feel really awkward and uncomfortable and you're going to go back to the old way often until you don't. So I really think that there is the only way that you can apply.

Ness:

What you want to change is to know where you're going and what you want to do, and that is a bigger piece of the pie, right? That is the whole True North planning that we talk about, and understanding what the business goal is, the personal goal, all of the detail that come into that which you can find in the book and in other podcasts that we've talked about, but really the action to get out of this barrier is to. It forms in part of that. 1% is to like, let's start looking at a habit, stack around one small change we can do and set up to succeed, because we're doing it in a way that allows us to easily remember that that's what I've committed to.

Ness:

And if you put them all together, it actually they all just tie in beautifully, don't they? Because what we've covered off on is number one, the supportive environment. Number two, looking at that leverage around pain. Number three was looking at replacing it with something else. Number four was all around the it's too big, too hard, so go for 1%. And number five is around plan. But also then look at how you can create the habit out of that and I think they just if you have some connections between each of those, it's going to just fast track you even more quickly.

Nicky:

Absolutely, and I think this is the difference between it being I'm motivated to create some change. Yes, I didn't work on the weekend for two weeks in a row and then I fall back into old habits. Or I didn't work long hours, but then something goes on at work and there I am back at my desk. So when, particularly, you know an example, I think about bringing together that habit stacking and replacing if you know that typically you work on a certain time of the weekend, what's something that you can replace the behavior with, like going for a walk or something you enjoy coffee with a friend and you're marking up that place in time with the habit stacking. So it's just, it is so connected, and these five key ingredients are the thing that will create sustainable change. I'm going to add a sixth one, actually just as I think about it.

Nicky:

And it links to how we started and ended the conversation around managing your expectations. So what are your expectations about this? Because if it is to change and how long has this habit, how long has this behavior been in place? If it's been in place for two weeks, it's going to be easier to change. If it's been in place for five years, 10 years, two years, it's going to be harder.

Nicky:

You know there's that saying it takes 21 days to make or break a habit. I don't know about that. I think it depends, yeah, depends on the behavior. Depends on how deeply ingrained those neural pathways are, depends on how much you wanted and that leverage point, depends on how supportive an environment you have, depends if you're relying on motivation and feeling like doing it or you actually have a plan in place to do it, like everything we went through, and so get really clear on what your outcome and expectation is, because that also is. Then we have the drop. We feel really depleted. Maybe we've moved away from the pain just enough for it to feel okay. Like I mean, I've shared before around my burnout, there were repeat patterns of like why do I keep doing this?

Nicky:

And a lot of what we talk about today. This is the key. So if we look at an action that people can take, an action for you guys to kind of go out and apply, does something come up top of?

Ness:

mind for you? Well, number one, I guess. Which one of those areas, those five key areas, do you listen to and think, wow, that actually resonates the most. It could be, maybe it's you don't have this supportive environment. It could be any of them, but there's the one thing that you go yeah, I get that one, but no, I don't really get that one. And so, ideally, what you're looking at is which one creates the biggest opportunity for you to make change.

Nicky:

Yeah, sorry, we're getting excited. Go for it. Which one makes you feel the most uncomfortable? Yeah, or do you get?

Ness:

defensive about yeah, that's a really good one, yeah, but it's all right for you to say but could be any of those different emotions, for sure and I think that that's that's the thing it's like.

Ness:

How can I make a change in that particular area? And you know what I I think that it's hard to do anything on your own if you wanted to create change in your world. So any anything that you are wanting to strive to do that allow that it's significant and important and worthwhile. You really need someone in your corner. So I'm going to suggest that, once you've identified which area it is, think about who is that person in my corner, and if they're not there, it could be a business buddy, it could be a bestie, it could be your partner or it could actually be, like I said earlier, a coach, a mentor or somebody in the professional circles that can be there to support you, because this won't be an overnight thing.

Nicky:

Yeah, and also different people in different areas. So we're talking. This could be business habits and behaviors. It could be personal weight loss. You know every area of life, so it's good to look at who are the people in that area that can support as well.

Ness:

Amazing. Well, I want to say thanks for listening everyone. We trust you've got value out of today and, as always, we will be back in your listening ears next week.

Nicky:

Thanks so much, everyone, bye.

Ness:

Thanks for listening to today's ep. If you loved what you heard, connect with us over on LinkedIn and let's continue the conversation over there. Did you hear? You can now buy our book Healthy Hustle the new blueprint to thrive in business and life at healthyhustlecomau. Want us to speak to your team or run a workshop on healthy hustle in your workplace? Send us an email or go old school and give us a call to discuss. Until next time, happy listening and here's to thriving in business and life.